« SUPER STREET FIGHTER 4 CHARACTERS STAMINA AND STUN, MORE NOTES FROM MERISTATION PODCAST »
haunts | Monday, March 22, 2010 at 2:09AM ;)
One of the main things plenty of players are wondering is how much damage certain characters will take and how easily they will be stunned. Meristation posted up a handful of statistics for some of the characters in Super Street Fighter 4 to give us a better idea of what we're getting into with each character. I added some notes below each character based on what we have seen of their playstyle as well.
Also, Meristaion conducted a podcast which gives more insight into Super Street Fighter 4's characters and different move attributes. You can check out some of the notes from this podcast below the character stats section.
UPDATE: Added damage changes to Shoryuken-type moves. Check the bottom of this post.
DeeJay - Stamina: 1000 / Stun: 1000
With DeeJay being what appears to be a fairly well rounded charge character, this balanced stun and stamina seems to make sense.
T. Hawk - Stamina: 1150 / Stun: 1100
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone really, I think we all expected T. Hawk to be a tank in Super. He will probably have to block fireballs with his face and other assorted attacks just to get in so it will probably balance out in the end. That said, he has a lot more mobility than say Zangief so we'll have to see.
Juri - Stamina: 950 / Stun: 950
I'd say this is fair considering she appears to be a rushdown beast with the ability to zone out opponents with her various Fireballs.
Cody - Stamina: 1000 / Stun: 1050
A brawler indeed, it looks like Cody will be able to take a couple hits without being phased too much. He is still a wild card in this game but after watching the Ruliweb Poongko videos it appears he will be able to do some pretty solid damage and then run away when he needs to. Having solid Stamina and Stun to boot will most likely make him a really good character.
Guy - Stamina: 950 / Stun: 1000
Guy is another character we haven't heard a ton about, but with his chain combos, air grabs and no projectile,s he will most likely end up being another rushdown character with a ton of mix ups. Having slightly lower than average Stamina might hurt him in the long run though.
Adon - Stamina: 950 / Stun: 1000
Not much to say here that wasn't said with Guy. Adon looks like he will be another rushdown character with lower than average stamina.
Ibuki - Stamina: 900 / Stun: 950
This is another set of stats that probably wont surprise anyone -- with Ibuki having seemingly unlimited chain combos and options, players will be able to really inflict a lot of damage quickly, but one mistake could make her think twice before pulling off anymore ninja shenanigans.
Makoto - Stamina: 950 / Stun: 1050
Below average Stamina but above average stun seems to make sense here. She is the epitome of rushdown but from what we know she wont have a true uppercut or any really solid reversal so she needs a little extra stun to take an extra hit or two without seeing stars.
Dudley - Stamina: 1050 / Stun: 1050
Seriously, CAPCOM? After all we've heard about Dudley most likely being top tier, this pretty much seals the deal. He has a ton of chain combos, multiple ways to deal out serious damage, and now if the other player happens to get an opening to attack he still takes less damage and stun than many of the other characters in the cast. Forget the 'Rog Army, that was so 2009 -- 2010 is year of the Dudley Army.
Hakan - Stamina: 1050 / 1100
With Hakan's need to be oiled up to be competitive, I suppose this makes sense, allowing him to take a couple extra hits or two while he gets in position to catch his opponents slippin'.
Meristaiton also conducted a podcast about Super Street Fighter 4, and DruscaelaN from SRK was kind enough to do a quick n' dirty translation. Here are his notes:
- Dudley is a beast, his DP is the most damaging (not more than Ken's ex) he has 1050 stamina.
- Adon has 950 Stamina
- Ibuki stun is 950, her stamina doesn't reach 1000
- Juri: another beast, specially feng shui engine, 40% of lifebar ensured to go down if she catches you
- Makoto not looking to good but crazy comebacks, looks mid-tier
- SSF4 has no survival or time attack (at least in their version) it's more focused into online playing
- New tittles are earned by playing online, and arcade, colors are gray, gold, (just like the old) blue for completing arcade on normal without continues, red for completing arcade on hardest
- 24 challenges(trials) per character, some are repeat, most are new, you can do bonus stages in challenge mode
- Chun li ultra II is free, bla bla
- Dee Jay, quite useless, but nice damage
- IN-DES-TRUC-TI-BLE song is no longer present at SSFIV
- Some intros (epilogues, cutscenes) are just static images with the voice of the character speaking
- Timing for comboing ultras seems more strict
- Cody can cancel one of his juggling kicks into ultra (dunno if 1 or 2)
- Ryu srk + ultra 400 dmg
- Sagat infamous TU fadc stF HK + U1 does 455
- Sagat new ultra tiger cannon does 366
- Chun-Li ex kicks + ultra 400
- Not seeming to come to Arcades
- Ryu srk fadc into ultra II hits, but not for the full animation and for less dmg than metsu hadoken
- Hakan slide special attack (the 2 hits version, that one with you hitting the guy in the ground with a splash) does about 200 damage, and 220 if oiled up
-More of hakan: if both opponents are on air, and hakan hits with his medium punch, he can land in the ground and do ultra 2, and the opponent will fall on him
- Shortcuts for the inputs are still there
- Akuma's 3rd alt looks like Nobunaga from Dynasty Warriors
Source: Meristation, SRK
haunts
KillaSasa from NeoGAF translated some areas of the Meristation blog revealing updated stats on Shoryuken-type moves. Well, Sagat, you had a good run.
SRK Damage changes:
Ryu - From 160-140-130 to 150-130-100 (Don't forget that the larger two are 2 hits too).
Cammy - 150-140-120 to 100 for all three.
Sagat - 170-150-140 to 100 for all three . EX Scar version does 180.
Ken - no exact numbers, but LP DP is 120 now and his others will be 140-160.
Fei - the same, apparently
Akuma - 190-160-120 to 150-130-100
Reader Comments (47)
wow. not looking forward to all the dudleys everywhere. sigh.
this sucks, i was really looking forward to playing dudley but it seems like they just went way over board with him. i saw the insane damage he did and thought well maybe he has low health or something, but nope. looks like its just going to be sagat all over again.
Making dp moves do less damage seems to make sense considering their invulnerability frames, their auto-correct, their extreme ease of input...but I dunno, I never mained a char with a dp in 4 so I could be biased...apparently the devs saw something unbalanced about them.
I'm curious haunts, considering the powered up uppercut does 180 damage as oppose to 100, does that make it worth the bar?
And yeah, I'm with you on the Dudley sentiment. I guess he'll be the new first match-up everyone learns to play. I've yet to see him exhibit any real weakness...
@MosnterGOGO
My line of thinking is that any character who has to "power up" to be competitive will have a harder time vs characters who are just buff right out of the gates. Just look at Q in Third Strike. I think with Sagat having to use a full bar for a "real" uppercut is going to make playing him fairly challenging. I knew he did less damage, but 100 dmg for a "I need it now" uppercut is pretty rough. Condering he is weaker across the board, Ultras and everything else I dont know what to think.
Thing is, people just look at the Uppercut FADC combo in SF4 and assume Sagat is broken. They dont look at everything else in between. He has his downsides like any other characters. In fact he has a ton of 5-5 match ups, it's just people dont want to acknowledge that. He just needed a slight damage reduction but it looks like they went overboard with him imo.
@ haunts
I'm with you on this, actually. Sagat got the "badguy" motif early on and never really shook it off. That probably had to do with a lot of what you mention--if any forum/article/etc ever mentioned Sagat, it was usually about his "OP'ness". But then this Ono interview made me raise a brow:
"I know there is the legend of over-powered Sagat and supposedly weak Vega (Balrog in Japan) and Guile etc, but these tierings really depend on the reviewer and their favourite characters. Also, although everyone talks about Sagat being too strong, I don’t know any major tournament champion who uses Sagat. But I do admit the unique elements of characters are exploited at mid-level matches and this has been re-adjusted in SSFIV."
So, I guess (and let me emphasize the word "guess") their idea was that pros will still be able to use Sagat roughly the same, while the intermediate players won't be able to get away with wins as easily? They wanted to take away a lot of his "free" damage? I dunno, I wasn't sure how to read into that exactly.
Regardless, while I think Sagat earned himself some nerfs, I think you might be right when you suggest they went to far.
@MosnterGoGo
I read that interview too and honestly felt a little insulted. I mean Mago, one of Japans greatest players wins a ton of tournaments and uses Sagat. He makes it sound like it was some fairy tale that he has ridiculous damage output and a lot of tournament players use him. Hell, look at the top 25 highest ranked BP players in Japan and a lot of them are Sagat. He talks like he didnt really know about how strong Sagat is, then you look at the numbers, the removal of some of his best aspects of his normals moves and its like, really dude? They seemed to make more changes to Sagat than almost any other returning character! So whats that all about? lol
Haunts I got to agree with you and I don't even play Sagat.....I play Honda. My biggest issue with Sagat was not his uppercut, Tiger knee or fireball game, but the fact I could outplay a Sagat and still loose becasue of 1 mistake in a round whereas Sagat could afford a few and still have a chance with 2 bars and an Ultra. I wanted to see a nerf, but 100 for DP's when the rest of the casts are more powerful, same health as Ryu, got to power up to be effective with DP, has less health and Ultra got nerfed. Looks like CAPCOM employed Fat Bastard from Austin Powers to steal his mojo and give it to Dudley!
I will of course hold judgement until I get to play the game, but Dudley looks like he will be number 1 right now - I also don't see any real weakness for him - he can duck fireballs, has good combo ability, target combos galore, plenty of ways into Ultra and now a solid uppercut, good health and stun.
"Makoto - Stamina: 950 / Stun: 1050"
COME ON CAPCOM! Makoto having standart Stamina was one of the cool things about her. I thought it would be awesome to have her be the only female that can take some hits. What the fuck, seriously.
"Cammy - 150-140-120 to 100 for all three."
HNNNNNNNGH. ONE HUNDRED? For all of them? Are you fucking kidding me? How am I supposed to punish fools now? I REALLY hope her other changes make up for it, because I really doubt the new ultra does..
@ haunts
Yeah, he does seem to totally contradict himself, that's why I wasn't sure if I was reading into it correctly.
"...unique elements of characters are exploited at mid-level matches and this has been re-adjusted in SSFIV..." is such a vague ass thing to say. It almost says nothing and could mean anything.
And your guess is as good as mine when it comes to his "obliviousness" to the tournament scene. I guess he's just being political...the devs have always been reluctant to say Sagat or anyone was out of balance--probably because it'd be used as "the final word" in tier arguments.
I dunno. Heh, at least you'll never get the whole "Well it's because he uses Sagat" shit when you win anymore.
edit: just read haunts message below this one, and man, I couldn't agree more again. I love SF4 but I never found a char that suited me all that well either. I started out wanting to main Vega, but he just played so differently I couldn't ever get a feel. All of Super's new chars look appealing to me though...I'm not looking forward to starting over, but it'll be worth it if I finally find some real synergy.
@Tamanapants,
Hah, the nerfs must be bad when I have a Honda player agreeing they went overboard with Sagat! LOL
Really though, thats what I've said in some older posts, both here and on forums. One mistake and all your life is gone from Sagat - we all know this. Up until then, without meter and Ultra, another solid player using a number of other characters in the case can actually give Sagat a lot of headaches. If you remove that risk of losing most of your life from an Uppercut FADC combo, it allows other elements of "low and mid" tier characters to really shine... but now it's starting to look like Sagat cant even go toe to toe with some of the new characters and possibly some of the returning cast!
I shouldn't be so negative though because truth be told I didn't even really truly enjoy playing Sagat in SF4 like I enjoyed playing say Makoto in 3s. I didn't gel with him like I did other characters, but most of the other characters in SF4 really didnt appeal to me either. C. Viper was fun for a time but I quickly saw how hit-or-miss her gameplan was, and he didnt have the stamina or tools to really back up those holes in her game. Sagat had some interesting elements in his game, dont get me wrong, but he was so slow and stationary it made me long for the days of the fluidness of 3s.
Now with a new game, I might actually find other characters I really groove with instead of just settling with a character because none of the others appealed to me. At the same time, I put so much work into Sagat, having to start from the ground up with a new character might just be as much of a challenge as re-learning Sagat in Super!
@ Haunts
I played Sagat for the first 6 months of the console release and then moved to Honda lol. The whole thing about matching up with your character is important I think. One day I picked Honda in casuals and never looked back. I know how you feel about whether to look at new vs old. Sagat in no way will be useless. His fireball game will still be excellent and his option selects and combos (outside of s.lk) are still there, it will just mean it takes longer to end your opponent and you would have to be extra careful with less health. The nerfs though make his good match ups automatically more even without changing anything with other characters. Learning his new elements will be a challenge I think, as will learning 10 new match ups and how and when to use his new Ultra.
Having ploughed the last 6 months into Honda I'm torn about making a change too as I think I will have plenty to relearn and learn from scratch. I'll be hitting trials before I do anything else - 10 new cast members and Honda....then I'll know if there is anyone else I like more as from the existing cast the changes I've seen have not made me want in anyway to change up in that direction.
Something I find interesting overall is the comments from Ono and Seth Killian right from the start of development. They have insisted that Top Tier would not get nerfed, but they would buff the rest of the characters. The evidence though has seemed to be the opposite:
Sagat - less damage, less Health, removed s.lk options, DP nerf.
Akuma - DP nerf, hk loop gone.
Zangief - health reduced, Lariat changed.
Balrog - not full hits of Ultra now.
Ryu - DP changed so you can only combo off first hit...less damage.
You then look at the buffs for the rest of the existing cast and its very hard to really see changes on the whole that give them significant improvements and news on this side of the game makes for slim pickings imo. Aside from maybe Chun and Abel I have seen very little hard evidence aside from people having new Ultras (which may make a bigger difference than I think right now)
Regardless i'm very hype for the game and whatever people might have hoped for, there will be some balance issues and the good thing is if you don't like what they did with your main guy or girl there are plenty more options now.
"My line of thinking is that any character who has to "power up" to be competitive will have a harder time vs characters who are just buff right out of the gates. Just look at Q in Third Strike. I think with Sagat having to use a full bar for a "real" uppercut is going to make playing him fairly challenging. I knew he did less damage, but 100 dmg for a "I need it now" uppercut is pretty rough. Condering he is weaker across the board, Ultras and everything else I dont know what to think.
Thing is, people just look at the Uppercut FADC combo in SF4 and assume Sagat is broken. They dont look at everything else in between. He has his downsides like any other characters. In fact he has a ton of 5-5 match ups, it's just people dont want to acknowledge that. He just needed a slight damage reduction but it looks like they went overboard with him imo."
....Very well put Haunts!
Shoryuken vs Siberian blizzard, who wins?
I dunno, the health nerf makes sense to me. He can pressure better than some characters that can't zone at all. So, either lessen his pressure (make TK less safe, make it so that he can't combo TU from cr. jab) or lessen his health. The former IMO would make him boring so I see the health nerf as logical.
He obviously isn't going to be as good this time, but I think he's still going to be viable.
The way dudley looks reminds me of Rufus. And "LOL FIREBALL DUCKS!" doesn't mean he can't get zoned. Lots of characters that are currently in sf4 have ways to pass through fireballs and still get zoned. Him being able to super from his overhead is cool, but who knows? We may find out something that forces dudley users off of their meter.
Let's just wait to play the game.
I guess its a good thing that SRK does less damage across the board, but cammy having all of hers d 100 seems odd. i keep beating this drum but one of her tools is being able to beast damage. She has no real cross up, she has no over head. Most higher level players can beat her by holding down back. She will have to work so much harder for damage. almost viper like in that area now with this change.
Another thing to consider is that one mistake vs. sagat puts you back on the other side of the screen. :)
y did they have to nerf a srk fadc in metsu hado? it still a thing to do to win the match anytime I lose or win against a fadc I dont care its apart of the game, but I do get alot of hatemail for being a shoto scrub
Jesus, some of the nerfs make no sense or just go way too far, Dudley might be a little too strong now. With everyone else - he looks like he'll be on top, but I very much doubt by the margin that Sagat was in SF4.
Besides, at lower-level and mid-level play Dudley be a lot hard to use than Sagat.
What about Adon Rising Jaguars? How much will they take off? I think with Sagat player build super and do the ex-scar move he will intimidate everyone so maybe its a good thing who knows...I can't wait to play the game
Hahahaha! HAHAHA! I should have seen this coming, CAPCOM let all the Dudley request and his popularity get to them.
Why capcom? Why let Dudley have all the tools to kill everyone AND 1050 hp/stun? Jesus...
and WTF have you done to GUY!??!? -sigh-, well, ive seen how he plays, his flip drop does like 220 or so... so 950 hp is a fair trade...
@TAMANAPANTS
Please stick with Honda, I gotta learn that matchup ^_^
Why don't we have info about more of the bottom row of the old character select screen? Is Sakura's DP still the same damage? All I know of Rose is that she's been buffed with combos and her new ultra is a way for her to extend combos and a defensive wall, but has her horizontal DP style move kept its damage, making it stronger than all the cannon spikes? The Dan vs. Gen video begged more questions than it answered, Gen has what seems like a late cancel mk xx hands but there have been no videos of anything else. Again with the Gen, but my ideal range was mid and my zoning was standing forward, and I don't expect that to change, so Dudley will be yet another freaking hard match-up with that being his ideal range too.
The main reason I don't play championship and ranked in vanilla SFIV is because I tire of playing Ryu and Sagat online. Seems it'll be Dudley in this one.
I'm up to 4 pages of questions in my little notepad of things to try just with Gen when I get my hands on it - I know that its hard to justify posting information on everyone (and maybe even covered by some NDA) but there are DP moves that haven't been ticked off on the checklist here. I wish they'd just release it already... only 38 days left here, despite all this Dudley rubbish I can't wait.
I have one thing to say and that is balrog will crush dudley. I have been waiting out this match since 3rd strike and now it is here. i salute my fellow balrog fighters. We finally got him paid after all these years and hes looking flashy. All you new dudley fans that left the balrog army, you will return soon enough. LONG LIVE THE BALROG ARMY!!!!
@ Haunts
Seriously.. I hate sagat.. Ill admit it. It was engraved into as a noob, picking up the stick and it has stayed with me, but 100 for every dp. Lol. Even im thinking thats ridiculous. And when you "power up".. Ill be expecting that dp. Its like saying.. "Oh, btw.. Im gonna dp you soon (: Just wanted to give you a fair warning" Lol.
@Tamanapants
I know how you feel. I felt like that with bison.. My original main was balrog, but when i was trying to unlock seth.. Something just felt natural and i never looked back (:
@Tha_Mechanick
I hope you are right. Balrog vs dudley has been salty for years. I personally have always thought dudley was WAY more dangerous than balrog... And.. He keeps it classy ;)
I personally want to hear something about M. Bison. I havnt hear ANYTHING.. No changes or anything. I wanna know the specifics of his ultra and if they changed anything of his specials.. or any of his normals.. Specifically his kicks. Only thing i know is that his new ultra works like el fuerte's and abel's.. something like that.. Thats what ive heard.
@HAUNTS Forget the balrog army? you cannot be serious. the army is too deep and strong. As a player of balrog, i take offense to that. Maybe you know something more than rest of us. Can please explain how dudley is better than balrog. Im sure and the rest of my BALROGIANS would like to know. LONG LIVE THE BALROG ARMY!!!!
@THECHAIN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR2AMhrYoNc
maybe this may help?
@THECHAIN All the classy shit wont mean a thing when it is crunch time in a clutch matchup
@DAFAMX
Thanks alot man. Im surprised i missed that! I watch all the ssf4 i find and that are posted. Guess i just missed it. Lol.
@THA_MECHANICK
Its not only that.. Balrog has been nerfed.. While dudley is looking more dangerous than ever.. Hes his 3s incarnation, but with his fist dive from 2nd impact. Right now. Balrog is looking like he needs to put in some more roadwork.. For some stamina. Lol. Maybe go and hit the bag a few times? Lol. Dudley is just looking beastly and Balrog is looking like just another contender, but we will see in about another month and 5 days or something. Lol.
@snorf
Yo Dudley isn't easy to play, he's one of the most technical characters in 3s. Plus you even haven't played the game yet, so save your complaints after a year release.
@THA_MECHANICK
Dudley is just a monster in 3s, he's pure rush down. Just watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWNPKCKd-a8
Looks like Ono is still a sexist, as there are still no girls with average health.
If these stamina/stun rankings are accurate, the things that jump out at me the most as far as being a little odd are Makoto, Guy, and Adon not having at least average health. Also, I tend to agree that they may have gone a bit overboard with the Sag nerfs as well as the DP nerfs, especially in the case of Cammy. Part of what makes her so scary (and a good character imo) is that she hits way harder than you would expect. An ever so slight damage nerf may have been in order, bit this seems a bit excessive. I'm sure there's a lot more to the story that we won't know until the masses have access to the game and is deep into it's life cycle.
Maybe Dudley's health is that high because of his cross counter and it's "this isn't armor, you take the damage" properties, if his health was low then you wouldn't be inclined to use it very much.
Just thinking out loud here.
Dudley seems...
I know this site is devoted to getting too excited over small bits of info, but you guys deserve an Oscar for overreacting. Playing the damn game before you start deciding overall balance = good idea.
I agree they went overboard with the nerfs, damage reduction would've sufficed. As a Sagat player myself there are frustrations that haven't already been said. The lack of mobility as Haunts said.
I wonder if Mago is going to stick with Sagat? But more importantly am I? He may still be there but knowing myself I will alt some characters as well. I've picked up quite a few characters over the course SF4 has been out. But not staying steady around 2 or 3 characters has it's ups and downs. Learning and exploration is always the fun part though.
@SlimX,
I know right, people getting excited over one of the most anticipated fighting games ever. What's this world coming to?
@ Haunts
No i agree with him the DP nerf seems good, and you make sound like Sagat is out of options now.
dp nerf on cammy makes it easy to move on ='(
DeeJay is useless? what does that mean exactly? hes not good? i'm still going to attempt to main him. as strong as dudley is i think a lot of people that will try to use him because he is the new sagat will go back to ryu/sagat mainly because i think they won't be able to do all his target combo's. This is going for everyone who started off with sf4. not the vet's that were already playing 3rd strike. i think he'll be to challenging for the newer guy's trying to get easy wins with a strong character.
I keep getting this weird sensation that I'm going to have to main T. Hawk. It's like he's just calling out to me with his overly brusque voice and lack of combos. Mmmm, yes, that Raging Slash has me so excited.
You know, that last sentence sounded very creepy. Forget I said it.
So on eventhubs a list of changes was posted. One of them was how Ryu can no longer hadouken, wait for a jump to dodge then super.
He can no longer do this, I think it's unreasonable to take it out. Capcom should leave it in, he's had it since forever.
i think sagat's scar dp will probably turn out to be better than expected because dp's mostlly hit counter, doing more damage than it did in sf4. And the scar will prolly stay charged untill you dp so thats pretty scary if you think about it. It also seems that the one bar cost is fair as 1 bar doesnt take that long to gain for a sagat.
@thisonesabus,
I watched a video today and saw that counter hit uppercuts still do fat damage so thats good, but are you saying counter hits do more damage now across the board? I havent heard about that.
Nah, I must've misread. I thought the normal scar version did 180 (which is huge dmg), so I thought if that hits counter it'll be over 200 dmg but it says ex scar so I'm not sure what that means. Is it a ex dp with scar, or a ex scar DP?
@thisonesabus,
EX Scar is just the name of the move.. or maybe it's Angry Scar? Haha, not sure, but I call it EX Scar because it uses one EX meter bar and makes the next uppercut stronger. You can store it the entire round, and it freezes the screen momentarily when you execute it. This can be used to "check" for a jump in that the screen will freeze, see if the opponent is jumping then punish, or just wait.
O, but my point was that I dont think sagat will suffer too much from this nerf. The scar is a great way of changing his dp, sagat players might not like it ofcourse since it isn't free but I dont see the scar being a useless move.It is odd how they said they wouldnt nerf the strong but buff the weaker characters and did the opposite but it prolly didnt work out the way they thought it would since balancing is rarely that simple and prolly never should be, espcially since the game has undergone some major changes. Hopefully it will fit in nicely with the other changes made. Well just have to play and see in a month.
@thisonesabus,
Personally I like how they handled damage the way they did it with Ryu, with the uppercut being two hits and when you FADC the hit, its only 100 damage, but it's 150 or something for both hits on a FP Dragon Punch.