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Saturday
Nov132010

« IPLAYWINNER PODCAST EPISODE 12 - CATALYST_NC FROM EVENTHUBS.COM »

This edition of the IPW podcast is a special one.  We've brought Catalyst_nc from Eventhubs to respond to some of the backlash against his site that was initially prompted by a post made by Maj of Sonic Hurricane. Since then the issue has became a hot topic on numerous fighting game forums.

 

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The intention of this episode is not to say Maj is wrong, or Catalyst_nc is wrong, but to just give Catalyst_nc a chance to give his side of the story. Regardless of what you think of the situation, as the fighting game community grows, and more people rise up to bring you content related to the game, its likely issues like these will continually need to be addressed, so this podcast is relevant to anyone out there using fighting game sites like Eventhubs, Sonic Hurricane, or even IPW.

Reader Comments (35)

<_<; Didn't know about any of this until this post lol. =/

November 13, 2010 | Registered Commenterekaj

Nice episode. The only thing I can think of for embedding youtube videos on sites for outsourcing the traffic to the original source is to take screenshots of the youtube player with the preview image of video content and post that with a hyperlink to the external site on it so that it'll play on that site instead. Course that is way more time consuming, would require more file storage, and take up the article sites bandwith up. Imo if you are making combo videos or recording match videos you should be happy when a 3rd party site links to your content. They are bringing more attention to your content at NO COST. Advertisement isn't free for businesses in real world conditions. Be happy if a site decides to post your work. If anything the sites could be stingy and make you pay for them to advertise your content you are putting out. I don't make any money from the content I release to the public. Hell I am actually losing money (file storage, .com registration, recording equipment, exc..) but it's a hobbie and I enjoy contributing to make the community stronger. If you are releasing video game recordings just for the sole purpose of earning money then I think you should reconsider your game plan.

November 13, 2010 | Registered CommenterTauntloop

"I don't think I've ever used Versus City content, I've linked to his stuff. Does he even have content? Isn't it just a news outlet?"

LOOOOOOOL

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterReno

This episode is not on the feed.

November 13, 2010 | Registered CommenterKobayashi

I've seen politicians who were more honest than Catalyst.

And Tauntloop did you even think about your post before you made it?

"Imo if you are making combo videos or recording match videos you should be happy when a 3rd party site links to your content. They are bringing more attention to your content at NO COST."
Ok but EH doesn't link to half the stuff that people make....they embed the content or sometimes outright steal it. They take full posts from SRK forum and use them as FAQs or guides and pretend that they are original content with no attribution to the original posters or authors. They post full articles or works and the links to the original sources are mere afterthoughts at the bottom of the page. And 'no cost'? You mean that stealing someone's work and stealing all of the traffic for that work is at 'no cost' to the original author? Even if the author doesn't want any money at all, what about credit and recognition? If EH is stealing info from Versus City or SRK forums and passing it off as their own I guess that's OK to you as long as Reno or other SRK posters aren't in it for the money?

What would happen to EH if they only had to rely on original content and were not allowed to leech from other sites or blogs? Would they be able to produce anything noteworthy? Would the site be nearly as high profile?

"If you are releasing video game recordings just for the sole purpose of earning money then I think you should reconsider your game plan."
As opposed to EH that produces nothing original but makes money off of the hard work of others by simply copying or sometimes outright stealing of content? You think guys like Reno or Maj really care all that much about money when they've been doing stuff for the community nearly a decade before EH was even around? You think Maj gets a gold TE stick at EVO last year because it was always about the money for him? It's not just about money, it's the total lack of respect that EH has for anything or anyone. They steal other works without permission or even attribution.

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBayFlash

WAT. I have never seen a copied guide or article anywhere on any section of the website. Not even on the front page. Where does all these accusations of copying come from? All those SSF4 guides I wrote are copies? What about my TvC character guides? TvC strategy guides?

Full posts from the SRK forums? WHERE? God damn! Why do people keep repeating stuff without actually presenting any proof of this? It's almost mudslinging at this point.

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterNyoronoru

Also out of the hundreds of posts I don't think I have ever seen a lack of accreditation other than 1 or 2 mistakes over the past two years.

Don't just shout things that aren't true.

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterNyoronoru

Great interview. Nice to hear some behind the scenes news.

Regarding the content referrals, why doesn't the content creator simply create a trailer for their videos? Simply link a combo-video trailer, (maybe this could build some hype), then on the screen annotations link to the original post on that persons website or youtube channel. It's a win win situation.

The host site still gets revenue for promoting a video and the creator gets revenue for the video itself.

A community news site shouldn't have to simply stop posting news because it's not specifically THEIR CREATED news. It's simply linking to share with everyone....hence "Community".

However, all the more power to catalyst. He's doing the community a huge favor. I wasn't even aware of sonic-hurricane until Event-hubs linked to it.

Shoutouts to iPlayerWinner for classy interviews. Keep it up guys.

Regards,

iMatt

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered CommenteriMatt

I read the footsie guide a while back but sh is not somewhere I check very often. I like the short news posts that EH does where it's just a list of links, some of it relevant to me and some I skip. It seems silly to re-translate an interview or to gather your own frame data if someone already did it.

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered Commenteryo

Good interview Pherai. Fair questions. Kept yourself in the middle. I'm about to break a internet comment rule here, but i am going to admit that i know jack about all this. Hearing him he sounds like a nice guy. Sounds like a bit of a misunderstanding. Him and the guy from Sonic Hurricane need to bro hug it out or something.

Just really cool to get some spot light on behind the scenes working of all the sites

November 13, 2010 | Registered CommenterSpiron

Catalyst is full of shit.

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterraeli

Youtube embeds are good -- how this became an issue is beyond me. Eventhubs has featured several of my videos, which I'm actually thankful for because it gave me a lot of hits and subscribers I otherwise wouldn't have. That's about all I care to say on this subject, it's a little dumb.

November 13, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterlordofultima

@LoU: I respect you an all, but you're not seeing this from the perspective of Maj here. He was grinding those combo videos and footsie articles like a fulltime job, and the articles more or less wound up copypasted on eventhubs. Regardless of what they say- Eventhubs at the beginning had full articles that you could read on the site and linked back to the website as a 'source'. This isn't acceptable because it doesn't generate ad revenue for SH.

SH can't get a partner channel on Youtube, which basically results in all of his ad revenue coming from hits to his blog. So, when SRK posted a SH video, the first link was to the blog with the embed. Eventhubs just posted the imbed. People would go to eventhubs for the video, click it, and watch it. Cool, he gets a useless view and maybe a thumbs up, while Catalyst gets money from his obnoxious and at times intrusive ads, Maj is out in the cold getting nothing.

The person who profited the most from Maj's work wasn't him, or the community like he wanted, it was literally Catalyst. Do you know how that feels? Some dude taking content from your site and putting it on his own and making more money with it while you lose money on your blog?

Nyonoruroruoweeaboofaggot is white knighting the shit out of EH everywhere, but it's a terrible site and really should just get shut down by the Capcops. They blatantly fucking rip off SRK forum posts and sometimes don't even cite who they fucking source, or take people's shit without their permission. Not excusable, original content creators are getting left out in the cold for who can copy/paste the fastest to get the 'scoop'.

Nevermind Catalyst posts whatever the fuck he feels like, including rumor lists that are completely and obviously wrong just to build more hits on his site. He's cashing in on our community, while trying to develop a 'separate' community that is literally worse than GameFAQs because SRK used to actually be a decent site and tell people to fucking read their stickies and not baby them.

If he thinks the info wasn't out there, I'd certainly have found it difficult to learn MVC2 and 3s in 07 considering my source was pretty much exclusively the SRK forums.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterraeli

I'm just more focused on the youtube embed stuff. T seems perfectly reasonable to me that someone would be upset about entire articles word-for-word posted on another website without sources.

But if we're talking about legitimate news articles that are broken somewhere else, then re-written and posted on a more popular site, that is once again something completely legitimate, and most videogame websites do that very thing.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterlordofultima

That's legit and not my problem. My problem is seeing Azreal's blog posts on Eventhubs with the source being 'The SRK Forums', not redirecting hits to SH instead of the SH youtube, etc. He's made a lot of mistakes and for him just to claim ignorance/innocence is too fucking much. Are you telling me you literally didn't go onto SRK and copy/paste, Catalyst? Is that what you're trying to say?

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterraeli

Good Listen Catalyst and Pherai. It is nice to know there is a man behind EventHubs and not some computer. =P

November 14, 2010 | Registered CommenterRogerdodger

@Raeli

Ok, these are bold claims and I would be more inclined to believe them if there was evidence supporting them, a link to the offending articles maybe? Something of that nature would, I'm not trying to call you lair I just don't see the facts.

If you have such a problem with eventhubs, have you ever tried contacting them? When Ono made a tweet about Poison that used an offensive term towards the tarns community and eventhubs posted the tweet, I sent Catalyst an email about it educating him about the PC terms to use, and he responded *very* promptly and *very* respectfully (that's not something you can say about a lot of the SF community or general video game community as a whole).

It seems like some of these people need to just contact him and everything might be worked out without drama.

P.S. avoid ad hominem when in an argument (the weeaboo comment about Nyoronoru) it's really could debunk your entire argument and make you look like an ass. Also, Nyoronoru has made more content for the community then you as far as I know.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMrMayor

I'm not looking to call anyone wrong or start a flame war here, but with respect to combo videos I just want to say one thing from my experience.
1) I've seen a ton of Maj's combo videos
2) I've never seen one as a result of going to eventhubs
3) I've never gone to the SH site

So, at least as far as videos are concerned, is eventhubs the only one to blame here for not bringing traffic to their blog where the ad revenue is made (as opposed to the YT channel)? I never go to eventhubs, and I've seen a whole lot of embeds of his videos from sites that are not getting any flack here...

In fact a lot of the time here and on other sites, the news in the article is either enough to tell the story or IS the story, so I find no need to click the source link, and I wonder how many others do either. I would be surprised if all the other sites actually asked for permission every time they posted something originating elsewhere as opposed to just putting a source link and calling it good. Sounds like EH is being held to a higher standard in some areas. I'm not saying all areas- copy/pasting soneone's guide and not asking them is not something I've seen other sites do or be allowed to get away with. And I totally agree that it shouldn't matter if you are helping someone profit by reposting their content or not. The fact is /you/ are profiting off of that person's content too, and whether or not it helps them as a side-effect, you should still need to get permission for that. but that seems like something everyone gets away with, not just EH... a source link isn't the same as grtting permission to profit off that work...

November 14, 2010 | Registered CommenterMEH

I'm not going to dig through that months archives of posts containing no real content just to find stolen works. You'll have to take my word for it.

Catalyst knows what he's doing, hell he banned a dude for telling him to give SRK credit for a scoop they dropped first and Eventhubs copy and pasted from the front page. Shit you not.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterraeli

ROFL. i'm not trying to be a dick but theres a stupidly easy solution to embedding that even an idiot could come up with. screencap a thumbnail and make the screencap and link to the video. (a href="whatever the hell you're linking to)(img src="your stupid thumbnail")(/a) obviously replace the parentheses. just keep on making posts. i enjoy all these sites event hubs, srk, ipw, sonic hurricane, etc. just keep on posting but instead of embedding the actual videos post an image of the video and then link to it.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterfafulatalofa

Oh, and fuck Nyoronoyuonru, he hasn't done shit other than make a few shitty guides. That dude white knights the shit out of EH on every single fg community site (SRK, IPW, SH, more.) and is clearly just on Catalyst's dick.

Nyo is a shitty player who makes shitty guides. I do a lot for the community- just because it's not on eventhubs doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered Commenterraeli

Interesting listen, Its a hard subject to try and debate, but as mentioned in a comment a few above, alot of sites do this, not just EH.

I for one would never of heard of SH if it wasnt from EH posting the combo vids, and once i watched the video i straight away browsed through SH to see what other gems they had stashed away that i could read/watch.

I generally check two sites for fighting games news and thats SRK and EH and yes pretty much the front pages are the same in regards to topics, but that doesnt stop me from checking both sites and the comments the users of that site have posted. So this whole copy/paste stuff to me is pointless, ( as long as credit is given where credit is due of course) as its a community news site its role is to round up all the best topics of that day so i dont have to go an browse 15 YT channels and several sites, and lets the community discuss.

Anyways i hope this gets sorted out, the SF community wont grow aslong as the major sites are bickering amongst themselves, Would it not just be easier for say the 5 top SF/fighting game sites to form some sort of online group kinda how SB nation has done with sports blogs. It would make stuff so much easier when having to link/provide credit (plus one login for all sites is always a bonus in my eyes as i always forgot my login in details :/ )

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterCoNr

This shit goes 2 ways. First Maj could have calmly asked Catalyst to remove the videos and Catalyst could have asked permission to post the videos. Sadly thought, Catalyst could still legally post his videos without conscent. The YouTube terms of service clearly state that when you post a video to YouTube, anyone can embed the video elsewhere as long as the video is using the YouTube embed. Though if he were asked, Catalyst would be very happy to stop posting their content.

Rather than acting like a little bitch, maybe being a little diplomatic and talking directly to the person could fix a lot of problems. SH just created a bunch of controversy for absolutely no reason. You could easily say that he could have went that route to attract a bunch of people to his website. I'm sure it wasn't his point, but if you're going to talk about how EH will do anything to attract people to their website, maybe SH could do that too.

As for the people who claim EH doesn't source anything, it's complete bullshit and you've probably never went to the website. Every thing that comes from elsewhere is source linked.

SRK makes way more money than EH does, yet SH doesn't seem to complain about them posting their videos. Seems like they just hate EH for some reason and are finding reasons to bash on it.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMike

WAH POLICE on Patrol I love a scene that all they give a shit about is site hits and google ad bucks because I do all the hard work like make combo videos that I post on youtube and your site stole my hits cause that is what matters. Its to much work do something I love that I consider my hobby. Clean the sand out of your fuckin vaginas if want credit for something talk to people that post the shit show some links to offense. Play the game enjoy the time you have now with it instead of becoming like all the other online troll harder scenes out there. The only reason people even give 3 fucks is because there site gets more traffic than yours does. Its funny the only site you can go too to find out what happened in a tournament is E.H. all the other so called hardcore sites just give you a who won the tournament but most people want to know what how so and so got to finals where there upsets along the way. Its a lot of work and I appreciate it also they where the first ones to do a weekend post on what tournaments where coming up and which had streams or not no one else did that guess what E.H. has done more to expand your uckin scene that all your the other so called sites around how did I find out iplaywinner or the majority of all the other sites it was not SRK because it was not until recently did they start to have a front page with updates in response to E.H. no one is perfect like people posting tier list claiming Justin Wong contributed input to the list then he coming out on stream the very same weekend it was posted saying that he talked to no one from iplaywinner about tier list. I can't even believe there had to be a podcast about this most pathetic shit I have yet to see from the scene.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMR RAX

Hey Raeil: If you don't want to seem like a biased poster, I would recommend:

1) Not insulting players directly, especially players that you've never met
2) Provide proof of this mass copying from SRK going on, which you've never done.

If you can't do either, then you're just rambling, incoherent and untrustworthy.

Also since I've been talking to a lot of people from SRK and SH over the past couple of days, and your version of events and claims are so out of whack from even what most people are legitimately claiming that you should just stop now before you appear even crazier than you already are.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterNyoronoru

As a EH dickrider, I feel I should make some notes on the claims going on here:

1) I don't recall seeing ANY full copy and paste articles except for Azrael's translations for Japanese blogs. Any blog in english will have a link to their site, with a one paragraph "snippet" that gives people a small preview of the interview. Capcom-unity forum posts are kind of paraphrased, but I suppose it's the same as the copy-paste issue.
2) Anything that's rumor-ish or potential bs is always prefaced as such.
3) A big issue seems to be not giving credit where credit is due, and that may partially be the fault of contributors like myself. I'm kind of naive on what's going on behind the scenes here but I also like to contribute, so when I go on Kotaku or read an SRK thread and see something cool I go and submit it to EH and say, "Hey did you know about so-and-so," or "Hey did you hear this person took top 8 at such and such," and it may actually be me who fails give proper sourcing. To be fair, that may just highlight a flaw in the content submission system at that site.

I'm not saying EH is perfect 'cause I know it's not. I'm not even saying that they're right on this whole issue. I'm just pointing out the very specific, minuscule claims that are not true here.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterBlue-Balloon

The hyperbole here is out of control. Maj could have asked him not to embed, he could have talked to him in real life instead of acting like a bitch about it. Doesn't seem to have a problem with his videos being embedded and linked to from other sources.

Ok but EH doesn't link to half the stuff that people make....they embed the content or sometimes outright steal it. They take full posts from SRK forum and use them as FAQs or guides and pretend that they are original content with no attribution to the original posters or authors. They post full articles or works and the links to the original sources are mere afterthoughts at the bottom of the page.

SOURCE? HAVE NOT SEEN THIS.

I don't understand why Eventhubs is catching more flack than a lot of other sites with embedded non-original news content even though they do the same shit. What is the difference?

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterFlarg

I think most of us are forgetting why we do this, we do it for the fighting games. That is why we started it, if you thought we could win money by just posting news, then we all should be rich by now. lol

But the reality is that posting news =/= money. I can understand Maj to some extend, because I also do Anime/Games Music Videos when I have the time and the idea. But I you will never see a peny for your work unless you sell it or work for a company.

Yet there is a problem with selling video content, copyright infliction is in almost everything you do in the internet. Heck, combo videos can be considerated copyright infringement because you are using material (the video game and/or music) that wasn't created by you. But most companies don't mind people making stuff out of their games and media because they get known by it, as someone stated, it's "free advertisement". But ones that content is been sold and the original source (video game/movie/music creator) is not making any money out of the fan work, then you have a problem.

Copyrights are a hard subject to deal with, more so in the subject of videos as I experience that too. I would love to talk more about this another time, but I'm a bit tired.

But I just want to leave some last words for now: We do this for the fighting games and the community. Yes, we all want to make money, but that won't happen if a environment in which we base our news off someone else work (games). So what we basically are doing is helping a game become more popular so the company who makes it can make money and make more of the games we love and enjoy. And how do we do that? By posting news about those games.

Regarding the journalism part, I believe that as long as you give credit by saying the information comes from a source and link it then it should be good. If you post something with out a source, then you have a problem.

I don't want to cause any problem, so sorry if I offended someone, as you know, sometimes the messages can be interpreted in a wrong way. I wish the best to everyone!

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterDarKaoZ

@Raeli

Sorry but you have no credibility right. Credibility is what makes people trust what you say, and credibility is only gained through providing evidence in your favor or by providing rel event information about what you may have done in the past. It may not work that way on 4chan, but that's how it works everywhere else.

Also, credibility is lost when you make personal attacks. It tells people that you have nothing relevant to say and your argument is backed into a corner.

I would be much more able to trust you if you provide any evidence about any of the claims you have made, or if you provide information about what you have done for the community.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMrMayor

The podcast shows not up on iTunes.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRobbes

Guys the reason why SRK or any site getting any troubles is because Maj is biased towards those sites.

November 14, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterStirfri564

In all honesty, I feel for Mag but he needs to wake up. It isn't Eventhubs fault he isn't making that much money, it is his own. As good as the content he produces is, no one is coming to eventhubs for that. What Maj needs to do is understand that other sites posting his videos are publicity for him. Publicity that he has failed to capitalize on. He's not even running any ads on SonicHurricane! How does he even really expect to make money?!

And another thing I want people to stop acting like if you aren't down with Shoryuken.com then you aren't really part of the community. Shoryuken has done some wonderful things for the community over the years and will likely always be the fighting game player's Mecca but the community is bigger than Shoryuken whether people like it or not.

I hope that Maj chooses to continue to put out his excellent content. I also hope he figures out how to stop blaming others for his shortcomings.

November 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMike Belgrove

Catalyst should run for office. The amount of lies coming out of his mouth make me want to puke. Playing dumb and saying you "forgot" does not excuse you for not linking the sources of your material. There's only so many times you can "forget" to do something especially after doing this for 3+ years. The "nice guy" and "I just didn't know I was doing anything wrong" act may fool the noobs but most of us who have been around the fighting game community for any decent amount of time are too smart for that bullshit. You blatantly used information from other sites without proper credit and links. You knew very well what you were doing. If that's how you want to run your shady Eventhubs and can sleep peacefully at night doing so then more power to you. Props to Maj for calling this douche out.

P.S. before NYORONORU dick rides and chimes in. This message was for Catalyst and not your godlike 100% original guides that you can't stop bringing up to defend him. It's not about the money. It's about ethics and honesty. Neither of which Catalyst has.

November 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterRal Ink

Unless you want me to point out your paranoia and false accusations, I really have no reason to address anything you write because you have lost credibility with your previous posts adding up from false claims and random insults.

Although the nick "Nyonoruroruoweeaboofaggot" is pretty funny, it's a tad sad to know that some people can never act like adults no matter how old they are.

November 15, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterNyoronoru

Just to chime in here, I love it whenever anybody (EventHubs, I Play Winner, SRK, or anybody else) embeds or links to my stuff. I'd say most content creators (especially of videos) feel similarly and there are tons who would love the extra publicity/views/hits.

However, if you don't want your videos embedded you have two options:
a) Turn off embedding on YouTube so that it's only viewable on YouTube (which means you can't embed it on your own site)
b) Host the videos yourself on your web site and don't allow them to be embeddable anywhere

Allowing anybody else to embed your content is the cost of free video hosting via YouTube.

November 22, 2010 | Unregistered Commentergootecks
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